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  • Writer's picturePatrick Norris

77. Dr. Todd Bowman and Rick Presley – Emotionally Healthy Leaders in Cultural Storms

Welcome to Episode #77 of the Red Ink Revival Leadership Podcast. Today’s conversation is with psychologist Dr. Todd Bowman and therapist Rick Presley as we talk through how to lead from an emotionally healthy position while navigating the cultural storms that challenge your very identity.

Dr. Bowman is the Associate Professor of Counseling at Indiana Wesleyan University. He is an Adjunct Professor for Human Sexuality at Nazarene Theological Seminary. He is an Adjunct Professor of the Intro to Psychology at Nazarene Bible College. He also is an evaluating psychologist for assessing applicants for seminaries.

Rick Presley is a licensed marriage and family therapist. His expertise and certifications include being a sexual addiction professional, an EMDR provider, and a partner betrayal clinician. He is an experienced treatment provider in grief, loss, and trauma recovery.

Our conversation takes us into the following:

  • Cultural hot topics such as deconstructionism, politics, racial tensions, and LGBTQ+.

  • What to do when simple personal beliefs are labeled as harmful to someone else in the culture.

  • How a lack of differentiation leads us to anger, rage, and depression.

  • How to hang on to yourself as a pastor, a leader, and an individual while others are pressuring you to conform to their needs.

  • The differences between separation and individuation.

  • How other people’s emotions compel us to cave and adapt, making us at risk of losing our individuation.

  • What differentiation is and how it can be used as a model of emotional maturity.

  • How childhood wounds, griefs, and trauma profiles predisposes people to fear their ideologies being disagreed with.

  • Committing to objective truth in Scripture with the emotional intolerance of those who want to be accepted as is.

  • When the role and job description of the pastor is being defined in the culture, rather than Scripture.

  • Is a pastor supposed to be helicoptering in every attender’s life?

  • Is a pastor supposed to be an expert on every cultural topic?

  • Is it a pastor’s responsibility to make sure people aren’t “over-serving,” in fear of being called an “abusive pastor”?

  • Managing double-binds, when both options to move forward are undesirable and have risks and costs built into them.

  • What it means to have a commitment to reality at all costs.

  • Caring for yourself so you can more effectively care for your church.

If you have questions you would like addressed in a future episode, topics you would enjoy hearing, or just want to give us feedback, we would love to hear from you. Email us at

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Edited and produced by Evan (Emac) McAlister.

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